MMP4: Navigating and Surviving a "Perfect Storm"

Kathie Kentfield 
Web Site Coordinator, Saint Joseph College

Cynthia Mariani 
Director, Marketing and Communications, Saint Joseph College

Beatrice Szalas 
Principal Consultant, Stamats, Inc.


The audio for this podcast can be downloaded at


Cindy Mariani:  Good morning everybody. My name is Cindy Mariani and I'm director of marketing and communications at Saint Joseph College in West Hartford Connecticut. And before I start I'm just curious how many folks in here are in the marketing side of the house? OK. Tech side of the house? And where does web sit in your world? Marketing or tech? Marketing? OK. All right. Let's get started. Uhm, once upon a time, there was an institution called Saint Joseph College in West Hartford Connecticut. I started there about two years ago. And I came on board right after a new president was brought on board for the institution.

A little background on the college where a small Catholic Women's College on the undergrad side of the house, grad side of the house is co-ed. One of the biggest challenges for the institution basically was no one knew about the institution or what they did know was that their perception was Saint Joseph College was a Catholic girls school.

01:06

So coming in to that environment, the first thing that was thrown on my plate literally was ah, the request for a web redesign. Along with the web redesign, there was the request to reinvigorate or rethink the Saint Joseph  College brand. What were the things that we stood for? What were the stories that we were going to start to tell to look at positioning the institution as a very different institution than what was currently known. And in addition to that the third piece was the fact that we needed a new content management system.

So you have three big pieces coming together at the same time ultimately sitting on somebody who had just arrived at the college, working with the president who had a strategic plan in place, had a vision for the institution, recognizing the fact that the web was going to be a primary marketing tool for an institution of our size which was about 2000 students, a thousand undergrad, a thousand grad, and limited resources.

02:05 So here was the challenge telling our story in a unique and different way. We needed the help of several different outside forces to come in and work with us.

Beatrice:  Thanks. Thanks Cindy. My name is Beatrice and I'm a consultant with a company called Staymates and I met Cindy two years ago basically as soon as she ride on campus. Her goal was to higher affirm to help with the branding and the website redesign as well as the CMS provider. We started working with them a couple of years ago and it took them to a pretty comprehensive branding process that was going to feed into the new website redesign as well as positioning uhm, Saint Joseph College. How many of you here have been through a branding process at your institution.

So, wow, quite a few of you. So I don't need to reinforce the importance of having a solid brand and a solid identity when trying to redesign a website. I want to take you quickly through some of the steps that we, that we went through.
03:02 We wanted to start with having a very solid ah, research based approach. And so I'm going to show you a few slides and talk a little bit about the research that we did. This was very, very important not only for positioning the college in a way that was going to be effective but also to get the institution on by and that we needed in order to move forward with the project. Once we do some research, we also developed a brand promise statement, which is also known as a positioning statement. Who is Saint Joseph College? Ah, what is it that we stand for? And, and how are we different and important and relevant to the target audiences that we serve?

Once we developed the brand promise and some attributes, we also developed a brand campaign concept, which involved quite a bit of work from a creative point of view but also testing those concepts to make sure that what we selected was going to be relevant and could be applied effective to the news or website redesign. And then following that, developing a roll out plan and ultimately monitoring, evaluating and strengthening the brand and the website at every opportunity.
04:02 Very quickly, the research that we did started with some on campus interviews following pretty intense data and document review that we did. We wanted to have a good sense of the mission and the vision and strategic plan as Cindy pointed out, this was ah, very important at this time with the new president on hand. Uhm, actually the institution was going through strategic planning process during the time of the branding process. But we spent quite a few, we spent a couple of days on campus interviewing current students, faculty staff, administrators, really trying to understand the personality of the institution.

Following that, we initiated several research studies. We did an internal survey of our internal audiences, which was web-based survey and then we did two telephone-based surveys. One with prospective students and one with alums. And this was really important to understand both from an internal and an external point of view how people perceive the college. Cindy mentioned that there were some outdated perceptions and there was a new vision for the institution moving forward. And so we really needed to get at that point a good picture of what the perceptions were of the college not only by the people who were part of the community but the external community as well including prospective students and other audiences.
05:11 Uhm, what we did when we did the research is we asked some very specific questions to each audience but a course set of the same questions for each audience so that we could compare and analyze the perceptions across the board. This is just a quick slide that I pulled from one of the research that we did with our, with our internal audiences where we asked them what do you think our Saint Joseph College's greatest strengths. And this really helped us to understand current student staff, faculty alums. What is it that they see as the thing that really distinguishes us and the thing that makes us a strong institution.

And you can see some of the, that we had very, very good rankings for Saint Joseph College, uhm, but basically showing the quality of the academics, the quality of the faculty and staff, the personal attention, the support and of course the college is small sized that really lend itself to a very personalized education. Uhm, we asked also some questions about when explaining Saint Joseph College to someone else, who's not familiar with the school, what do you tell them?
06:06 And this is an important piece of understanding how our internal audiences are describing the college to other people. That gives us a sense of our internal perceptions. We also asked a lot of questions of our external audiences particularly prospective students trying to understand where's that overlap between what we value, who we are and how we're seeing by those who are not yet a member of this community. So we did, ah, we asked our prospective students and all of our other audiences to rank us on a variety of attribute and perception ratings.

This is important because we wanted to understand first of all what's important to prospective students and then how are we ranking on those same attributes and that's really important. One of the biggest mistakes that we see colleges and universities make is they focus their brand on who they are internally without really understanding what's important to the target audience. It's very similar to a company that makes a product that they can make rather than a product that people want.
07:00 And so we really wanted to understand what's on the mind of prospective students, what's important to them and how does that overlap with what we have to offer? Uhm, we also, through these, through the research explored, what are our strengths, our weaknesses, our points of distinction? How does the college rank among the competition? Our we a first choice institution? Second? Third? Where are in that? And who are we really competing against?

As you know from working ah, the variety of colleges and universities, sometimes who we think we compete with is not always the reality. When we actually do the research we find out we are competing against other institutions and that helps us with our positioning strategy as well.

We also during the research took the opportunity to find out what's important to them when visiting the college website. What is it they're looking for? What kind of experience are they expecting to have? And so that really fed into the branding process but also into the, directly into the website redesign process.

One of the things that I wanted to mention too is that ah, one of the, an important thing that we explored with the, our target audiences is how believable certain things are about Saint Joseph College. And this just gives you a snapshot of that.
08:05 You can see here we asked them a variety of different phrases and words to see how, uhm, how much they agree or disagree with this. This is important because when you're developing a brand for an institution, you can come up with some pretty amazing things but if you put something out there that people are saying, "This is fantastic but I really don't believe it about this school", you're going to really experience some challenges in executing your brand and so we really wanted to get a sense of what, what sort of messages, what sort of ideas do people really believe about the college and how can we build on some of these in clarifying our identity and strengthening our reputation.

Uhm, one of the things, once we did the research what is really important was developing a brand promise. And those of you who'd been through a branding process, you may have called it a positioning statement or it may have been a brand promise statement. And what's important about this, is that this, the brand promise really exists where the mission and the marketplace meet. It's not just about who you are internally but it's matching that with your external audiences and what the marketplace is looking for. What students and parents and other target audiences really are, are considering when looking at college.
09:10

And so we, we developed a series of brand promise statements, uhm, and the, the title that we are going to these with our target audiences. So we did a web-based survey with a variety of constituents, actually all of our target audiences to determine which brand promise or which positioning statement was most important, believable, distinctive and appealing. I just want to say a couple of things about this. Why these parameters? We need to make sure that the brand promise is important to people. If it's not important, then what's the point, right?

Believable. I mentioned earlier that we need to understand whether what we're putting out there is going to be something that people believe about the college and whether it's going to be something that resonates. Distinctive. This of course is very difficult for any college to achieve because let's face it world offering higher education, but finding something that's distinctive about a school is very important to having successful positioning strategy and of course overall appeal.

10:10 And I want to show you the results of just a couple of the slides. In addition to being able to have them grade us, grade the promises on those scales, we were also on the research able to identify what is it about that particular statement that they found most appealing? And you can see here that there are certain words and phrases in these statements that were appealing to people. So you can see you have 57% of people said personal attention, 43% of the people said dedicated faculty and staff, this was statement one. And statement six we can see other things that were really resonating.

The idea of exploring and expanding their potential of being part of a welcoming community. Of being, ah, ah, providing individuals with the opportunity to succeed and make a difference in society. I'm showing you these because I want to communicate how important it is that the positioning and the brand work is research-based.
11:03 I know a lot of people efforts. worked on committees and we've come up with some great attributes and some great ways of communicating the essence of a college but this type of research is very important because we know based on research with target that these are the words and phrases, ideas that appeal to our target audience and really formed the foundation for communication. Ultimately we ended up with a brand promise and a handful of brand attributes.

And the brand attributes are those key messages that we know we want to communicate and strengthen at every opportunity whether we're talking about the website or any other communication vehicle. And for each one of these brand attributes we developed a key message, which is really how are we going to be talking about this but also a whole list of proof points that the college could utilize whenever we're talking target audiences realizing that depending on who we talk to, we're going to modify these or adjust these accordingly. But this was really the foundation for the marketing communication efforts and the things that we wanted to really communicate through the website as well as other activities and vehicles.
12:07 Uhm, we also developed a creative concept. We did two creative concepts for the college and focus tested those. Again, the concept that was selected was actually called focused and I don't have, unfortunately we don't have the time to kind of go into the whole rationale and the thinking behind this but what we did is developed a whole campaign idea around this idea of being focused. And it was so interesting because I'll never forget the day that I presented this on campus. And I presented two concepts.

And the other concept was called raise your voice and that was inspired by a lot of the interviews where women told us that this was an opportunity to find their voice and to really develop themselves as individuals. And the concept to raise your voice we believe would resonate strongly with, uhm, prospective students and other audiences and then we also did a second concept, which was focused and it was all about helping students find clarity and focus and direction in their lives. And I remember when presented on campus and to the committee, and overwhelmingly the committee preferred the first concept, which was raise your voice.
13:08

And thought that the focus concept was much too sophisticated for high school students and fortunately the rest of the day, Cindy and I spent focus testing these and I'll never forget one of the people on the committee actually said, "I really liked both concepts but there's no way my teenage daughter would like the focus concept. It's too sophisticated she would definitely like the other one." And I said really? Well I gave her the boards. We gave her the boards at the end of the day to bring home to her daughter and sure enough her daughter overwhelmingly preferred this concept that was selected as did all of, I think everyone that we focus tested with including the graduate students in addition to the high school students preferred this concept.

And so what I want to say about this is basically that as much as ah, we all like working on committees, it's very important that you  do your homework whether it's developing the brand piece through some solid research and really making sure that what you're doing is going to resonate but also when it comes to the concepting, making sure that you're, that you're target audiences are the ones that are telling you what's going to work and what's going to resonate and connect with them.

14:14 Uhm, the next thing was really just preparing for the rollout and that involved developing a brand guide that not only provided editorial recommendations but the design recommendations and then it was handed over to Saint Joe's to roll into a variety of different activities and vehicles from radio commercials to print pieces and of course the website.

Cindy Mariani:  Uhm, I just want to go back to the slide that talks to, about the, some of the creative that we did. One of the things that we recognize right off the bat with this work was because this was new, because this was so different from what the campus community was used to or what they were expecting to see from the Marketing and Communications Office, we took the time to work with everybody that was on staff, whether it was an administrative assistant, whether it was a faculty member, whether it was a department head to introduce them to this concept because ultimately, these folks are going to be your ambassadors when they're out and about connecting with their individual networks.
15:13

So one of the things we did in addition to the creative that you would assume an institution would do was we developed what we were calling Communications 101. We set up a series of seminars, workshops for our campus community. Invited folks in for an hour, served them coffee and doughnuts that kind of thing and got them to understand what we were looking to tell. What was the story we wanted to tell about the institution? What was their role in helping us tell that story to their different constituents so they all had a comfort level.

So if they are approached by somebody, again when you're out and about doing your daily things in your routine. If somebody asked them about Saint Joseph College, they'd be able to share what the SEC experience was, what the brand attributes were. So bringing them in early on, getting their buy and ultimately getting their support was instrumental in our ultimate success.

16:12 Kathy:  And I'm Kathy and I'm the person that maintains the external website on campus. How many of you are from small institutions where you only have one or two people? Huh. Oh? So I'm good, good company then. So I think you can appreciate this next step in the process because uhm, ultimately it came to me to make this whole thing work as far as the web goes. So as the slide shows here Staymates was testing, doing all this research testing this new brand.

They handed it over to their designers and their design team actually design several different websites for us to look at as a committee. The committee did review the different designs that were handed down to us and chose one. Staymates then developed the website handed it off to our content management system provider on the update, who actually did the infrastructure of the website and developed the templates that were going to be used with the CMS.
17:10 And then in turn they handed it back to us to actually migrate the content. While all of this was going on in the background we were also as Cindy mentioned trying to bring in the different constituencies on campus to get them on board with this whole new design, new branding, new directions, new president, new strategic plan. Everything was kind of going on at the same time and then we told them, OK, take your website information that you've currently got on our www.sjc.edu website and split it into an internet and an external.

And so there was a lot of instruction going on about, you know, you have to think about your audiences and you have to go  into that web page that you've got out there that was pretty generic and pull out the content information that would go either internally or externally.
18:03 We narrowed down the website, it was approximately 8000 pages when we started the process and when we went live last summer, it was wheedled down to about 1700 on our external website. So I, I don't know if any of you were here for an earlier session where they talked about taking that content and condensing it so that you're actually, you're getting rid of the fluff. You're actually putting out the information that you want to get out to prospectives.

And our external website also has the audience of parents, visitors, alumni and so we wanted to address all of those different audiences with the new website as well. And so it was a different way of thinking for our campus. At the same time we also brought in the idea of the decentralized model where in the past all the departments would make edits to their pages print out a copy of the web page send it to me and I along with two part time student assistants would have to actually go in and make the changes.
19:06 We were using a cold fusion database at that time so there was no CMS in place. Uhm, and now we were telling them, OK, we're, we're giving you what you asked for. You can jump right in and make all these changes yourselves and we're met with some resistance because it was a cultural change on campus. OK, yeah, now you own the content. You can make these changes. And they were saying, "No. But we don't have time to do that."

So that's something we're still struggling with a little bit. We have some what I call the early adapters who I knew were going to jump right and manage and maintain their content and are still doing so. And I also knew that we had certain departments on campus that were never going to want to go in and do this. And we're still struggling to get them to update their content as well. Uhm, at the same time we also had independent websites for our art center, our athletics department and our admissions website was also separate.
20:09 They were using another system so we had to actually rescrupple of that and redo everything bring all three of those websites into the external website. So there was a lot of content migration that happened before we went live. We tweaked some of the structure that came as a recommendation best practices from Staymates and we're still in that process of reverting back to some things that we think actually worked for us better. But the overall design that we were given seems to be working very well. It's been over a little bit over a year now and I think people are finding things on the site where they might not have been able to previously.

And so while all of the things that Cindy and Beatrice were talking about were happening, the IT Department was also meeting to  evaluate different content management systems that were available at the time. This was approximately ah, two, two and a-half years ago I think now where we were out there looking at different things.
21:12 Since we are a small institution and we have very limited resources, we wanted something that was going to be easy to roll out for us, something that would be easy to maintain uhm, from my perspective I wanted something that was going to be very easy to train all of these users on campus. Something that was going to be, something that I could do some training with them hand it off to them and most of the people would be able to go in and, and run with it on their own.

And so ultimately we chose on the updates only campus model which we've been very pleased with. I think overall that having a WYSIWIG editor in that CMS that's very similar to Microsoft Word editor really has helped because most of our users on campus, our administrative assistants were familiar with that environment.
22:04 We have a few that know HTML code and they can jump in and edit right in the HTML code if they wish to but most of the campus doesn't want to know about it, they just want to go in and, and make a quick edit and this is something that they can do fairly easily. And so we were identifying, each department had to identify which people would actually be given accounts in the CMS. There was a little bit of issue around that because uhm, there's some ownership, some control issues. I don't know if you experience that on your campus.

But we have department chairs who still want to review everything that gets published before it goes live. Uhm, so it's nice because we were able to give those access privileges. We have 125 users on our very small campus and maintaining all of the accounts has become quite a bit of time consuming job for me I'll admit.
23:04
We have a lot of staff that come and go and so every time my department loses one of their users of the CMS I have to retrain someone new and so I'm still adjusting to that role of, of shifting from someone who was actually doing all the work on the website to actually being the trainer of people who are doing this and also being their resource for when they are struggling. So that's been a shift a little bit in my role as well.

Some days it's more frustrating and Cindy can attest because I come in her office and complain a little bit about that. Getting people to come to the training has been a little bit of an issue. So we did a survey this summer and I believe we're going to start offering some more video training online training so they can go to that rather than to have to actually physically go to a class that I'm offering. Uhm, in addition to that we are offering twice a month sessions featuring  a specific topic. So, you know, whatever anybody is bringing up to me over and over again is something that they're struggling with like uploading images.
24:13 I just recently held a one-hour session on that and we kind of went over some of the best practices on taking photos so that you don't end up with trees coming out of heads and advertising for other universities because the students are wearing their sweatshirts from somewhere else like UCon or something like that. And so we went over some of those basics and I think the people that attended got a better grasp of what we were looking so that they could then put images up on our website to enhance it and also at the same time to do more storytelling, which is ultimately what we want to get into more this year.

And the last thing that I'm really struggling with a little bit right now also is getting people to refresh their content or keep their content current and up to date. I'm sure you probably also struggle with that a little bit. There are reminders that you can set up within the CMS which is really handy so right within OUcampus when you're editing the page you can set up a reminder to come back in three months or six months and it will email you and say, "Go check your content."
25:18 And I'm trying to get that as part of the culture of change as well so that people are accustomed to going in and setting up these reminders. Initially when we were rolling up I have decided to just set them up on each page but we realized soon enough that maybe that wasn't the best approach so we're now leaving it up to each department but again I'm trying to get them to realize the value that uhm, having an updated date stamped on the page even if the content hasn't changed to go in and republish the page so that each page shows a current date or a fairly new date on the page. So that anybody coming in would say, "Ah, well, you know, this is up to date information. It's not a year old." And wonder about the value of it.
26:04 This is a picture of our old website. It worked fairly well for us. Uhm, however there were a few things that we didn't like about it that we knew we wanted to change. Top right corner we only had one call to action on the site and that was a small Apply Now button that they could click on and it would bring up an online application process for them. The navigation across the top in blue was a drop down menu of navigation and we had quite a few people that complained about that didn't care for that style of navigation. They had difficulties maneuvering within it as well as finding the content that they wanted to get at.

And then down on the lower left hand corner we had an actual scrolling like marquee style of headlines for our news and events and you know, many of the newer browsers of course couldn't accommodate that so there were some things initially that we knew we had to change right away.
27:02 And this is ah, what our new website looks like as of last week. This is a screen shot as of last week and as you can see there are several calls to action. We have Apply right at the very top but we also, down at the lower bottom of the website we also have different ways that they can get into the different areas, graduate students or weekend program, etc. And we also have a block right there that lists all of, or links to all of the upcoming open houses for each area on campus that's got an information session coming up.

We also have a RSS feed now set up with news and events and they're prominently displayed on homepage. We continued our focused message that we were talking about a few minutes ago and we rotate these photos out every quarter so that there are something new all the time on there. We also have a new virtual tour which was done over the last summer and into the fall and so we link into that now, something that we didn't really didn't have before.
28:03 And then we're also highlighting different alumni current staff on the homepage so that again we're telling that, reinforcing that storytelling theme. And right now all those, from a personal perspective it's a little obnoxious. We have the engage with us section where we're saying follow us. It's big and I, I'm not sure that I want to keep it there forever but it's new for us so that's why we're highlighting it on the homepage taking up that valuable real estate. But we want to engage our campus and our visitors and our alums of course with our new Facebook page and our Twitter account and things like.

So we have a lot of people blogging for us now. That's something new this semester so that's why we're featuring that on the homepage. And with that I think I'm going to turn this over to Cindy and she can talk the aftermath.
29:05 Cindy Mariani:  OK. So uhm, we've kind of taken you through the journey starting with once upon a time there was a, a small Catholic institution and uhm, I'm happy to say that we have seen significant results with the work that we have been doing via the focus campaign. When I had mentioned earlier about bringing our internal audiences on board one of the things and some of you may experience it, uhm, faculty and others often think that they can go in and create their own materials and start to use that in a proactive way to tell the story.

Well with this focus campaign with the guidelines that we established we looked to bring those individuals in under the umbrella and that seems to be working. So folks are looking at the story in a different way. The website obviously  relates directly back to the strategic plan of the institution. Our inquiries, our applications deposits, enrollment is up. This year was our largest freshmen class coming in to Saint Joseph College.
30:02 Our graduate numbers are booming. One of the new things on the horizon is, as Kathy alluded to as School of Pharmacy that's going to be opening up in 2011. And that institution as far as tools to help tell the story relies strictly on the web at this point in time so they are fully engaged. And uhm, job functions within the Marketing and Communications Department have evolved.. I'm happy to say that we have a new web position that was filled recently. We have a web content manager on board working closely with Kathy. We've never had that before. So there is a definite commitment from the administration to the web as a primary tool to help move the institution forward.

One of our folks who used to be our editor-writer has transitioned over into a manager of creative services exploring the world of social media. How do we build that into the story that we're looking to tell. I wanted to share this slide because we all look for measurement points.
31:03 One of the things we do as an institution is partner with the folks at Noel-Levitz so uhm, they were recently on campus and what they shared with us the numbers that you see with the blue bars, that's the national average aggregate of the clients they work with across the United States. So you'll see for admits right above that is the way Saint Joseph is currently positioned. We're up 9.6% in reference to admits. In reference to confirms we're up 28% for a small institution of our size.

Excuse me. In reference to the yield rate where nationally, there was a negative figure, we were up 3.2%. And then the final reference there is regarding the discount rate. Most institutions participating with Noel-Levitz so an increase of 3.8% in their discount, ours was 0.1 basically. So uhm, it's been a real driver for us. We've realized success, obviously there's a lot more that we're looking to do but we're starting to gain momentum.
32:13 OK, so Kathy has mentioned previously the whole storytelling theme. That's what we're doing this year to get our campus community involved in a more proactive way. Faculty are responding by sharing with us stories about their students that are having successes. We in turn, turn those into mechanisms that can help get the message out whether it's through the admissions team, whether it's something on the website, whether it's a video that's created and has popped up on YouTube, those are all the kinds of things that we're looking to do.

The website as you all know is never done. So it's a continually revising, revision, tweaking of that. And we're looking at the planning phase for what do we do next? What's next in the story for Saint Joseph College? So the question revolves around, was there a content strategy and working with the Staymates folks as well as the internal team and moving content into the website. Is that correct, because I may...
33:07

Beatrice you want to chime in with that? Uhm, ultimately we engaged with a core committee of folks and they represented the different disciplines around the institution so there was an opportunity to work specifically with the folks in the grad section, in the admissions team, in the retention areas to look at how they wanted to tell the story, get their buy in under the umbrella of the focus team and work as a team. It was definitely a team effort. It wasn't the folks in the Marketing and Communications Department dictating us to what they should do.

The benefit for us was we have the buy and write up the get-go from the administration. So they were helping to drive it, they were supporting our efforts and they were encouraging people to think differently about how they wanted to tell their story.

Beatrice:  I would, I would just want to add to that, as part of our discovery process and all of the interviews that we did, we developed basically a discovery document which makes recommendations on the content for the website and what the new website should contain.

34:09 And it's quite an elaborate outline of what the website should be. We also did this as part of the work, we did a writing for the web workshop for content providers that was really beneficial because there's a lot of people who are going to be writing for the web. I'm giving them the tools in order to be successful was a really important piece of it. And I, I think we got some great feedback and that we really were able to bring a lot of people in on this because we provided them with the training that they needed to be able to use the website to communicate more effectively.

Cindy Mariani:  And I also have to say, uhm, when all of this was coming down the pike at the same time, uhm, we had a significant interest in moving this as quickly as possible. So between the work that Beatrice's team was doing, between the work we had to do with the internal community, between the work we needed to do with update and bringing in this all together, all of this was happening within a year. One year.
35:05 Normally, institutions take a couple of years to really think this through and be proactive which in hindsight, uhm, didn't help us out all that immensely. It was more of an effort on our part. OK, we got everything together, let's roll with it but it was never, we could never walk away feeling that it was completely done. There was always something that we have to circle back with, in regards to faculty involvement and regards to bugs that may have cropped up that we didn't anticipate.

But the end result is a site that the majority of folks on campus love and it's doing what we want it to do but we would not do it. Faculty, staff, students is the intranet, uhm, when I say students I mean existing students on campus. The external site is definitely a recruiting tool for the external audiences. In reference to using the bill paying system as an example, we worked with the Bursar's Office to generate materials that are then mailed to key audiences that they interact with.
36:10 The information on the website gives the current students the opportunity to link back to the mySJC site which is the internal site for more information. So it's looking at the cross linking opportunities and trying to be as consistent as we could be. Uhm, tried to as consistent as possible in having everything feedback to reinforcing the brand for the institution. That's critical.

In reference to YouTube, uhm, the videos that we have done so far feedback to reinforce the brand attributes about challenging academics about building leadership, about being career focused so the stories that we're telling support those brand attributes both on the YouTube face and also in Facebook. So if you were to go on the institution of Facebook page for the institution. Some of the things you see would reinforce the brand promise and we try to do that with all of our print material all of the radio that's done, all of the banner advertising that's done on a variety of different mechanisms.
37:11 We also have, Kathy reminded a brand Lexicon that we post on mySJC so internal staff can look at that and use keywords, key language and that kind of thing as they interact with students. Anything else? Great. Thank you all.

[Applause]